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9:41 pm
November 23, 2011
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los_diablo
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Firmly Planted said:
Joe, I truly appreciate your post. I have been reading this thread and haven't been sure what would be best to say. I agree with you totally, we are hear to support each other on this journey – and that means anyone and everyone who wants that support. So yes, how can we help?
What would I need support on? Each day on average I eat close to five servings of fruit and ten servings of vegetables (seriously) Rip, Dr. E, and I 10000000000000% are on the same page when it comes to the fact that american's need to be eating way more plants than what they are. But I can't agree that completely avoiding animal protein is a necessity when there are people that do eat animal proteins and live very long lives.
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7:56 am
November 24, 2011
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Firmly Planted
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Los – I said that I applaud Joe's post because he did a great job of pointing out that we are all here to help each other on this journey we have chosen, which is to follow a plant strong/or plant perfect diet. Some here adhere to it more closely than others – some struggle and others don't seem to. Some who post here are new and looking for help and others are very well informed and have been at it a long time. However, that doesn't matter, because we can get support here in whatever form is needed – because people seem to care.
You have made your points and are welcome to them, of course. One of my greatest "food heroes", Michael Pollan, eats a small amount of meat once or twice a week. I don't choose to eat like he does because I do believe in the importance of eliminating meat, but he has so many valuable things to say that I admire him very much regarding what he says about food overall. So we all co-exist in this world even if we differ in the details, and can be better off for it if we let ourselves be.
People on this forum have given you the best information, opinions, explanations that they have and you think another way. That is okay, of course. Is there something more you need from us other than for the people here to come around to your way of thinking? If that is what you are after, which is what it seems when I read your posts, doesn't it seem to you as if that isn't going to happen? The people posting here believe differently than you do and have very good reasons for what they think…even if you don't agree.
Again, I say – is there anything we can help you with?
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12:28 pm
November 26, 2011
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f1jim
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Post edited 12:30 pm – November 26, 2011 by f1jim
Everyone is throwing around stats and numbers and not keeping them in their proper context. Yes Okinawans have a history of low animal protein consumption, but they do eat a small percentage of their calories from animal sources. Every other culture eats some percentage from animal products. What is the interesting thing to note is that among all the cultures, longevity goes up as animal protein goes down. That tells me there is something inherently good about avoiding it. Not that you can't live to a nice old age with animal proteins, just that as you consume less your chances increase. We all are blessed with brains and if we use them to see the world around us, and learn from the experience of others, if we wish to maximize our longevity, avoid animal proteins. Most of our health gurus here have seen this and that is why they tend to fall on the side of avoiding animal proteins. It just makes sense when you look at the worlds experience. Also we must look at the Okinawan diet historically not just at todays diet. What were the Okinawans eating in their youth…middle age?
Not saying that meat is evil, or vile, just that to maximize your longevity minimize your consumption. There are no studies that can show us the differences between 5% and 0% meat consumption. We have to extrapolate that from the fact that declining consumption seems to increase longevity.
f1jim
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9:16 pm
January 23, 2012
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ct214
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| New Member | posts 1 | |
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Los,
Unfortunately, your conclusion is not a scientific one. You have already decided that your theory is true, so you have dismissed or ignored the arguments against it. That's fine. Most of us are guilty of that is some aspect(s) of our lives. But here's the deal: until someone manages to see how long the Okinawans live when they don't eat meat, we cannot use them as an example in the way that you would like to. We already know that they have genetic advantages which contribute to their impressive health profile. They might very well have even more centenarians, longer life spans, and lower disease rates if they ate even less meat. But since no one has ever conducted that study, I am going to hang my hat on the actual scientific work that Drs. Esseltyn and Campbell have done, showing that less animal protein leads to less disease.
Show me the study where a million or even a thousand Okinawans got sicker because they cut meat out of their diet or even stayed the same after cutting meat, and then we can chat intelligently about this.
Cheers,
CT
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5:46 pm
January 24, 2012
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Kadman
| | Portland, OR | |
| Member | posts 13 | |
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Los,
I guess I am a little perplexed as to what your hopes are by continuing to post. You had to know that most everyone on here is trying to abide by a vegan lifestyle and that is by their choice. If your goal was to stir the pot… Job well done.
Unfortunately, I don't think any of us are going to change our lifestyle because of an unknown individual sharing data (on an online forum) about people from a different country.
Have some broccoli and move on…
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8:07 pm
January 24, 2012
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thatcrazyvegan
| | Lakewood, Ohio | |
| Member | posts 348 | |
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Thank you Kadman this is indeed tedious.
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9:49 pm
January 30, 2012
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BowlHiker
| | Eagle, CO | |
| Member | posts 58 | |
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Los,
The Internet is full of people who love to argue and you're one of them.
I don't get anything from your post other than chest beating. If what you eat works for you, great. But this forum is for folks who are following this way of eating, right or wrong.
If you don't agree go make a video and write a book. Maybe your thing will take of and you'll be famous too.
Regarding eating fish. For me, all I need to know is the truth – which is that the oceans are polluted. Depending where, the water is dangerous. If you don't believe me, than you don't believe science. A good read is here: http://www.plasticoceanthebook…..index.html
So I'm not eating anything that comes from polluted water. When I saw how meat gets from the field to the grocery store, that was all I needed to see. So I don't eat meat except on Thanksgiving.
I don't care if Rip and his Dad are wrong about a few things. But I been around too. What these guys are doing is fantastic and it's right on. This site has been a huge asset to our family.
So if you don't agree, then go find a home for your discontent. But not here.
I'm willing to bet this site and what's going on here has saved lives and enriched many. It's like a blue bird day here. All you're doing is blocking the great view.
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1:44 am
February 2, 2012
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wetankles
| | Alameda, California | |
| Member | posts 6 | |
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I would like to take another tac in this discussion:
If you do not have a physical problem from years of eating poorly, then eating animal protien or any of the other watch factors such as Milk, Refined Sugars, Refined Foods and Oils in relatively small quantities – that is Quantities Below the Threshold Levels does not qualify any of those items as the Devil.
In other words:
In the lifestyle of the Okinawans, they do not eat large amounts of animal protein and of the animal protein that they do eat, it is largely fish/sea food and not red meat. Of the many sea foods they eat, much of it is extremely lean – such as squid etc.
If you have lived well below any of the threshold danger levels for certain food consumptions, then a whole number of foods that above the threshold become devils are nothing below them.
Your arguement or question is completely consistent with the findings:
Most Okinawans do not expose themselves to high threshold levels of Milk, Animal protien, Refined Sugars, Refined Processed Foods. Therefore, the little they do eat of the various watch factors does not negatively affect their longevity because they do not reach intake levels that have the cumulative negative effects so clearly and well documented in a growing number of excellent studies.
Please enlighten me if I have missed something.
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8:37 am
February 2, 2012
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dissolution
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| Member | posts 56 | |
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wetankles,
What you have outlined is what we call the "Myth of Moderation".
http://www.diseaseproof.com/ar…..ation.html
What I struggled with for years, before discovering this way of eating, was how can 1 boneless skinless chicken breast be heathy, but two of them put my dietary cholesterol intake over my cardiologist prescribed limit. So even though, eating in moderation, 1 boneless skinless chicken breast is under the threshold, is it healthy? Umm..No. Could you be thin and healthy if you only have 1 serving of chicken every day? Sure, I suppose, if you can make that work for you. It still does not make that chicken breast healthy.
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